EPISODE 78

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In today’s episode, we discuss the second part of Alpha Reverence in which we talk about the secular versions of spirituality from the book “The Power of Ritual” by Casper ter Kuile. He recommends to take some of the things from religious teachings and use them in your life. We can be spiritual even without religion. Sometimes our most meaningful rituals are ones that we create. Spirituality is a connection to yourself, to a higher power, and to others. Sacred and transcendental experiences don’t ONLY exist in churches or synagogues, temples, or mosques. Anyone can access those experiences, we just have to learn how, with our intentions, to invite that to happen. It can be achieved through:

1. Sabbath – a day of rest and reflection.
2. Community – synchronized singing or movements (example: CrossFit); and joining a group with a common cause
3. Sacred Texts – you can find wisdom through texts such as reading a book or joining a book club or some community.
4. Meal Time – communal, start with a prayer, or a toast. Prepare it with intention. Sacred intentional thoughts about how amazing it is to eat this food. Rituals where people are asked to share something or end with a board game.
5. Fasting – but not just for health benefits, save calories or get into ketosis. But do it for mental clarity and donate your saved $$ to a shelter.
6. Pilgrimage – a contemplative journey to a sacred place. Going to the ocean to scatter ashes. A pilgrimage has a purpose. To heal? To find forgiveness? To just experience something new or awesome.
7. Seasons – honor the beginning of spring, summer, fall, or winter. Connect with nature with a hike, picnic with friends, donate leftover food to a shelter.
8. Confession groups – such as AA, 12 step type addiction, recovery groups, and other spiritual programs.
9. Sacrifices – giving up something for other people or charity. 

Other questions answered in this episode:

• What is humility? And how do we do it?
• What is the value of forgiveness? Why do we need to do that? And how do you do it?
• To seek out sublime experiences enlarges us. What does this mean and how might we do it?
• How do you create and foster gratitude?

 

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Brad Singletary (00:00:00):
Welcome back to the alpha quorum show. Brad Singletary here. I’m joined by my buddy and my mentor. Mike Spurgin. Welcome back Taco Mike also Dean Sanner. We introduced him in the last episode. He’s joining us here again today. And in this episode, we want to talk about some general spirituality kinds of principles. So I recently read a book on a topic. I think the book was called the power of ritual and it basically talked about secular spirituality and I found it very helpful. Now I’m a religious person and I go to church almost every Sunday. And I appreciate it and love some of that, but I know some people can’t, here’s what the author talked about. You want to be spiritual, but you don’t want to talk about God don’t want to pray. Don’t go to church. He recommended taking some of the things from religious teachings and use it in your life.

Brad Singletary (00:00:53):
For example, and the Judeo-Christian world, they talk about the Sabbath and it’s a holy day and so forth. Why not take a day of rest and reflection? Turn off your computer Dean in the last episode, talked about solitude. What if you could take that kind of thing? So other people do it because they believe it’s a commandment by God. You don’t have to believe that. Just do it for yourself. Take a day a week. Even in the academic world, they talk about a professor would take a sabbatical every several years. You know, they take a whole year off and they go read and research or they write or whatever. So the idea of Sabbath take a day, take some time to renew yourself and disconnect from the things that you do every other day. Maybe this day, you’re not watching Netflix all day long on this weekend.

Brad Singletary (00:01:43):
Maybe you’re doing things outside of your normal range of activities, community. So when you think about a lot of church congregations, they’ll do things like singing there’s a whole there’s like worship leaders and stuff who are doing singing and maybe a stand up or maybe you’re sitting down or maybe there’s some synchronized activity. The author of this book actually talked about even like CrossFit. So when you’re doing something together with other people, imagine a singing part of church, but you’re doing this in a, in a workout routine, you’re together with other people. I also recently read another book about PTSD and it talked about synchronized activity as something that heals you. And I immediately thought of singing in church, but when you’re doing something together with other people reciting passages or doing any kind of unified activity that can be very healing.

Brad Singletary (00:02:41):
The author also talks about sacred texts. So you don’t want to read traditional scripture. Don’t believe in it. No problem. Maybe you find some value in the Lord of the rings or some wisdom coming out of star wars or a Harry Potter. I don’t know. I don’t. Now you know those stories very well, but maybe there are areas where you can find wisdom through texts. Maybe you joined a book club or some community. Maybe you can read things seeking insight, and it’s a fictional story, but you can still take the idea of some sacred texts. You don’t have to believe it’s God’s word. This is just a story written by some American author. You find some meaningful, valuable life lessons there. A lot of religious people before mealtime will say grace, or, you know, give a blessing on the, ask for a blessing on the food and so forth.

Brad Singletary (00:03:37):
When we were hunter gatherers, we ate together so that we could pool our stores of food together. It was a kind of a communal thing. And maybe traditionally there’s a prayer or a toast or some kind. If you prepare your meal with intention, maybe you have some thoughts of gratitude about your meal. Maybe, maybe have some ritual. Maybe you bow your head and just recognize how amazing it feels to be fed and to have your needs met that way. Maybe dessert is a ritual. Think about that. So mealtime, so these are ways to be spiritual, kind of stealing things from religion, but you don’t have to have some of those beliefs think about fasting. That’s been around since the beginning of time. Also there’s a lot of health benefits for that. You could save some calories. I’ve hear people lately talking about these, you know, 72 hour fast and all that.

Brad Singletary (00:04:32):
I couldn’t imagine doing that, but, and they do that for mental clarity, they say, but what if you donated your money that you saved from fasting to a shelter, to a homeless shelter, but another spiritual thought is pilgrimage. It’s, you know, some contemplative journey to some sacred place. I think about like going to the ocean to scatter some ashes. Maybe there’s a purpose. Something that you can do that would heal. You go back to the, to the mountains where you first, you know, had an experience of some kind and you go back there to remember, think about the seasons. A lot of religious holidays really fall around the beginnings of seasons. What, but what if you could have some ritual of some kind to honor the spring or the summer or the fall, connect with nature, you know, have a hike, take a picnic with your friends, you know, and then, and then donate your leftover food to a shelter.

Brad Singletary (00:05:29):
Someone less fortunate. Let’s see here. What else did he have? Confession groups? So things like AA, 12 step type addiction, recovery groups, those are spiritual programs. The author of this book, talking about ritual, a way to go and you sit with 12, 15 people tell on yourself, seeking direction from the things that they say that’s very spiritual in nature and not necessarily connected to God or religion. The last thing Mike talked about this both Mike and Dean is sacrifice. You know, sacrifices were a part of religious traditions throughout all of history. What if you gave up something for someone else? What if you donated your Starbucks money to a charity for a month or so? What if you gave some of your time? So that comes out of religious teachings or some religions do those things, but you could do that on your own. That’s a way to enlarge yourself by giving anyway. So I just shared a whole list there of things we’re talking about. Someone just really chooses not to explore the things that we all do in terms of reading the Bible or using prayer or the idea of a traditional God-like higher power. And I’m wondering what you guys might add to that.

Dean Sanner (00:06:45):
Well, one thought that comes to mind for me is when my dad used to take me hunting. Yeah. When I was a kid. And in fact, he took a friend of ours whose dad had died. His name was Randy, and it’d be Randy, me and my dad and took us up into Northern Nevada. And we would go up there and it was a different experience, man. You’re out there in the middle of nowhere in the middle of nothing. And dad would give some, some direction and instruction and we would try to follow it. And lo and behold we’d shoot. Our deer seemed like every year, but there was just time of being up there. It was a different setting. You didn’t have electronics, you didn’t have anything back then. It was only TV anyway. But you didn’t have that stuff. You were just out there. It was the snow, it was the elements. And thank goodness we had a trailer. But it was just a little bit different. It was a different type of scenario. But I do remember getting lost one time out there. And boy, I’ll tell you what you start, you start thinking about at that point in time. But it was just beautiful. The, the majesty of the mountains and everything related to it.

Brad Singletary (00:07:53):
The physical element you’ve got gear and equipment, you’re hiking up a mountain side. It maybe tiring. You wake up at the crack of Dawn or before the sunrises you’re with your father. I mean, what a cool that I can see that as very spiritual in nature. Sure. Mike, what thoughts about spiritual things you do that don’t have to do with religious things?

Taco Mike (00:08:17):
Yeah, so I think if uh, if a man so if you deconstruct religion, you deconstruct the practices and the culture of religion. What you find are some really basic, fundamental building blocks that appeal to the nature of the human mind. Why is the world saturated with religions? Why are people killing themselves and killing others for this religion? Why are people selling out so many things? Why are people doing so why, why is religion so powerful? What is it about this thing? And why is it so good? I kind of alluded to the fact that there’s so much that’s damaging from religion, but at the same time, this is dark and light. Again, at the same time, there’s so much, that’s beautiful about, about religion and all religions and religiosity and the practice of fellowship and being in the small C church. So to deconstruct that you just read a lot of the things like that guy just went in and dove in and like deconstructed out some of the core, fundamental, like psychological and practical ways that people who practice religion find a lot of peace and value in it. And so what were some of those, again, you had community when people get together and align themselves around some purpose, some cause some purpose, and that could be a charity.

Taco Mike (00:09:55):
It could be some type of service organization. It could be any number of things, but when people are aligned, they feel unified and there is a joy and a satisfaction that comes from that. You can create your own. If there’s not a group out there, here’s a challenge. Men. If there’s not a group that you find an affinity towards, then make your own, do your own. If you don’t think there’s a, there’s a charity out there, that’s serving a population that you would like to serve, then you get off and do it. You start, you create it and text me or email me. And I will put some money up towards starting that I’ll put skin in that game, because I think a man is not fulfilling the full measure of who he is as an alpha, unless he is leading out and doing something bad-ass.

Taco Mike (00:10:48):
And that’s bad-ass for himself and for his community and for the world. Think of the, think of the way that it’s designed into us. I believe to be altruistic. We haven’t dominated this earth as a species because we’re not altruistic. We have only done it because we’re altruistic, it’s designed into us. So that’s just one way. I mean, I don’t, I won’t pick each one of these things out and break them all down, but just relisten to Brad’s list or get that book. Because if you are lacking a life, if you have a life that lacks some of these traditions, some of these practices, some of these these values, I think there is a lot that’s left on the table. That’s missing. That’s potentially missing in your life. If you are, look, if you’re butthurt over religion, I totally get it. And the thought of like going to a church and then practicing those things in their flavor. If that’s disgusting to you, then great, I’m happy. Well, not happy that you’re disgusted by it, but but I’m happy that you’ve recognized that and you realize that, so then go find something else. Don’t use that excuse to then do nothing. I hate my church. And so I’m not going to them be, you know what I’m saying?

Brad Singletary (00:12:07):
I’m going to give anywhere. I’m not going to associate with anyone. I’m not going to participate in any kind of stuff,

Taco Mike (00:12:12):
Not going to donate anything. I’m going to hate all kinds of stuff. Like, no. Yeah, that’s lame. Don’t use that as an excuse because that’s a, cop-out, that’s, that’s lazy.

Dean Sanner (00:12:24):
And that’s where, that’s where community comes in. And the reality testing that I mentioned previously, Hey, we’ve gotta be able to connect with other people. And you’re going to have bad experiences in life. You’re going to be hurt. You’re going to be, you’re going to go through difficult times and you can either be a victim. Oh, my look, what they did to me and make them out to be the bad people and you to be the person who’s been victimized, or you can decide, you know what, I’m gonna, I’m gonna move in a different direction and take off take responsibility for yourself. Like Mike was saying,

Brad Singletary (00:12:54):
We said, we weren’t going to talk about church again, but I had another thought about community. So when I grew up, they used to talk about, well, this isn’t just a social club. You know, it kind of like there’s things to do. You’ve got to do things. You got to walk the walk and do that kind of thing. I think the social club does sometimes bring people to a sense of spirituality. I was in a program where we had to teach. It was an addiction recovery program with the university of Nevada school of medicine. And they wanted us to teach spirituality to addicts. And the basic thing there was connection. Spirituality is connection, connection to yourself, connecting to higher power connection to others. And so the social part of we, we just, we must be connected. If not, we’re, we’re just not being all that we can be.

Brad Singletary (00:13:44):
When I did the stupidest things that I ever did in my life, which had life altering consequences, I was alone. I didn’t lean on anybody. I didn’t have anybody to laugh with and joke with. And tell me, tell me I was being an idiot. We talk about that a lot here. I want to shift gears here a little bit guys, and talk about pondering your mortality. That’s one of the things under reverence for the red nine is that you think about the fact that we’re all going to die. How can you reflect on that, help us be more solid in the life we’re living?

Dean Sanner (00:14:18):
Well, I’ll just share that most people don’t think about that. In fact, the one time they do is when they’re at a funeral and then they start thinking, and now with everything that’s gone on with COVID et cetera, you can’t help. But think man, mortality is coming my way at some point in time. And I think it helps us get outside of ourself. It helps us begin to look at, Hey, what really is the purpose of life? What really is the meaning of life? What am I going to accomplish while I’m here? And it’s limited time. I mean, I’m coming down to, you know, I used to think, oh my gosh, 60, that’s ancient now. I’m like, man, that’s young, you got 40 years left. 90 is ancient. Yeah.

Taco Mike (00:15:04):
New 60. Yeah. But it’s all

Dean Sanner (00:15:06):
Relative. But you start thinking, okay, what’s my, why, why am I here? What’s my next step. You know? And I start have got a few grandkids and I’m like, oh, I want to do this with my grandsons. I never had a son. So I get something with my grandson. And, and what about my granddaughters? And I start looking outside of myself to say, Hey, what’s life really about for me here. And what are, what am I going to invest? And for me, it’s usually related to, again, relationships, relationship with either family it’s with other guys, it’s with people in my life.

Brad Singletary (00:15:43):
Yeah. It really makes you think about what matters. And so many of us in American culture are kind of competitive and driven to succeed. And what is success? Anyway, I love going to funerals. And when I talked to clients who, you know, had someone pass or they’re, they’re, they’re going through a tragedy like that. I tell them to look for the buzz, you know, look for the sweetness that comes. There’s something kind of, you know, if you’re going through a loss right now, I don’t mean to be insensitive, but I really believe if you attend that and you just let yourself feel, there is something very valuable and considering mortality that makes you see life a little differently.

Taco Mike (00:16:25):
Can I agree more? I love going to funerals and I’ve gone to plenty of funerals that I was loosely associated with someone, but I went to, because I wanted to hear stories. I have this concept that I like to live my life from my funeral backwards. I think we talked about this before. And so I have a mindset of what would I like the tone and direction of my funeral to be like, what is the general value of what I would like my funeral to project out into the world? Like I think every meeting is an opportunity for growth and education and passing something on, right? Anytime two people get together, that’s a moment like something could be passed and a life could be changed. A life could be changed by the simplest interaction. Can a funeral change lives will have course. It can, hopefully it changes everyone’s life for the better.

Taco Mike (00:17:13):
I’ve been at funerals where I was very empty and shallow. And I don’t know that I learned a whole lot. Maybe that’s that was the lesson. Well, I would like personally, selfishly, I would like my funeral to kick. I would like it to be off the chain. I would like people to walk out of there saying, I want to go home and be a better man. I learned XYZ. I want my funeral to kick Royal. I want it to be the funeral that everybody wants to go to. Well, it better be full of a lot of stories. It better have some content. It better have, I better bring the magic to my funeral. Well, I need to do that. Now. I need to do it right now. And I need to be living the kind of life so that when the funeral happens, there’s those people who are willing to get up and say, this guy was XYZ.

Taco Mike (00:18:03):
And the other thing I hope that happens is a lot of conversations with people who I have interacted in impacted their life, but I ain’t telling nobody about it. And, and I, and I want no glory from it until I’m dead. When I’m dead, you can do whatever you want with those stories. But while I’m alive, they’re secret. And I hope that there’s a lot of people outside. Hopefully it’s at where we’ll do it. We’ll do it at a cowboy ranch and now leave some money in a fund and we’ll do horseback riding and hot air balloon rides and motorcycle rides. And I hope that there’s some people who have some conversations on the side who say, who will talk about stories that nobody knew happened? Because I don’t want anybody to know because I don’t want my ego to be inflated. Right. Does that make sense? Yeah. Like I, if I just went around and like give away the big publishers clearing house check that would really serve my ego really well, but I can’t do that. And so I intentionally don’t do that, but maybe it would be great if there are people who are surprised at, oh, this happened and he did this and that was that. So I’m just living life so that I have material for a killer pun intended a funeral.

Brad Singletary (00:19:14):
You know, that song is a Tim McGraw country song is probably 15 years old or something now live like you were dying. You ever heard of that song? I’m not really a country fan, but I ran into that song by accident a few times when I was accidentally listening to country. But anyway, basically this guy gets cancer. I don’t know. I guess his friend, he gets cancer and he has this little period of time before he’s going to pass. And it said, you know, he, he wrote a bull named Fu Man Chu. He, he finally read the good book. You know, he gave some forgiveness to people that he’d been holding on to some resentments and he, you know, went out dancing and he did all these kinds of things. And messages song has lived like you were dying. If you think about what if this was your last day, it would probably make a difference with what you do with that time.

Brad Singletary (00:20:02):
So many fruitless and just insignificant things that we spend so much of our time on, I read a quote by Seneca and some of these these stoic books and things that are, have been popularized lately. He says, no person hands out their money to passers by, but to how many do each of us hand out our lives. We’re tightfisted with property and money yet we think too little of wasting time. The one thing about which we should all be the toughest misers man, we would just give so much more. We would do so much more loving. We would talk so much about relationships. I think we would handle the people around us very differently if we consider that and it could be tonight, it could be tomorrow. And I don’t this, I don’t want this to sound morbid and dark, but I think if you can find the juice that comes to you, when you think about your mortality, you really live in a different way.

Dean Sanner (00:20:57):
I think so. I think being able to understand that we aren’t infinite in this life, this life is temporary, and we’re only here for a certain amount of time. And time was the key that you just read in that quote. We, time is the most important thing. We think it’s money, things, all that kind of stuff. No it’s time. And it’s the time that you spend with people. But then again we have to watch what society does? Society says, Hey, wait, you’ve got to invest in education. You got to invest in your, in your business and your profession and all those things are great. The question again is, is it an extreme, are you spending too much time doing one thing and ignoring the other? So balance becomes a key, balance and living life.

Brad Singletary (00:21:49):
I want to talk about humility. So one of our concepts here is that an alpha is humble and teachable. What is humility? And how do we do it? How do you do humility? There’s an attitude there. Actions of humility. How does that work?

Taco Mike (00:22:04):
Because I’m the least humble person I know. And I’m real proud of that fact.

Brad Singletary (00:22:10):
You’re proud of that. You’re the least humble person.

Dean Sanner (00:22:13):
I come back again to, to balance because if you’re going to be a, if you’re going to be a guy, you got to have some confidence. All right, you got to have some, some mojo, a little swagger. Yeah. Be able to say, Hey, I got this man. I’m, I’m, I’m taking this on at the same time. There’s a difference between confidence and cockiness and achieving a whole lot of things can be great. But when that’s what you’re always leading with, that just pushes people away. I think you’ve gotta be able to say, Hey, I may have some of that back there. I don’t like people to know I’m a pastor. I go out golfing. I don’t want them to know at all the pastor, what are they going to they’re like, and then when they find out, oh, oh, oh, I’m sorry. I. Cause everybody swears on the golf course.

Dean Sanner (00:22:59):
I mean, that’s just the second language out there. And I’m like, Hey, do what you’re going to do. I mean, it’d be yourself. I don’t want you to have to be somebody else because of your perception of who you think I am. You know, I’ve let some, I’ve let some things slip out out there myself. So Hey, it happens part of life. But but yeah, so you have to, it’s a balance again, between confidence. Confidence is okay. But I think the humility basically for me is I know my strengths, but I’m willing to put those aside in order to serve. In other words, Hey, I know I’m somebody, I know I’ve achieved something, but I also know my flaws. And if I don’t keep a balance, a healthy balance with that, I’m in trouble. And I think the whole idea of humility is recognizing your strengths, but being able to put those aside so you can serve others, others that are maybe less fortunate, others, that haven’t had, the opportunities I’ve had and be able to say, Hey, I know where I’m at, but I’m putting this down so I can serve because humility is about service in my opinion.

Brad Singletary (00:24:14):
I read a quote and it was kind of an unrelated thing. This social media influencer, he said it was Gary V. If anybody’s interested, he says, everything takes longer than you think it will. That is a, an interesting way to think about humility. It’s being void of assumption to assume that it’s going to turn out right to assume that everything’s going to be fine to assume that I know what I’m doing to assume. One of my early professors early on in my schooling talked about were usually more confident than correct. And to me, that’s an absence of humility when we’re so overly confident, we don’t realize that things aren’t always smooth and simple thoughts about humility. Mike

Taco Mike (00:24:59):
Humility is a trait that I don’t come to naturally. And I often don’t enjoy it. I’ve I’ve learned it through an educational process of knowing what it’s like when I don’t have it. So I know it’s value, but just like eating broccoli. I don’t always pick it first in the refrigerator. Cause there’s other garbage that I like better, but it’s not good for me. And so the opposite of humility are my natural tendencies, arrogance aggression, cockiness act first, think later, sorry, you’re a casualty. You know, like I hurt your feelings. Sorry. Like, that’s just, that’s just the fog of war like happens. You got offended, like, you know your leg, it’s almost like, you know, there was a battle, you got injured, your leg got blown off. I’m like, that sucks. Like we got to keep going. The mission just has to keep going.

Taco Mike (00:25:55):
So my natural tendency is not to be humble. And then not to acknowledge when I’m not humble and not go backwards and try to make it right or have given apology or give somebody maybe perspective. Maybe it would help them if they just knew, like, I’m sorry, I was kind of rushy or pushy. But look, we had a timeline and a deadline and this is kind of where I was coming from and throw it sometimes just as giving somebody a little bit of color commentary about what’s going on, we’ll at least assuage their like maybe anger about you or their heart feelings. You know, you don’t, you don’t want to run around and just like create a bunch of enemies in your life. So to be humble, I’m just acknowledging the fact that it does not come to me innately. And naturally it is a skill that I work on.

Taco Mike (00:26:47):
It’s a component of character that I must continually remind myself of in anything I can do. Listen to a podcast, talk to someone who’s like you guys, a good resource, a good sounding board, read a book, find a spiritual practice, meditate, pray in whatever those in use, fill in your own words. If you don’t like those words that I just use find a different word that works better for what you could do for your own soul. But when I am seeking that sort of food, then I find it that I can, I can choose to be humble and tea and soft and gentle. I mean, those are all to me. Those are synonyms. A humility to me is when I give somebody the benefit of the doubt when I don’t overrun you with my opinion, when I don’t, I mean, these are just ways that this is what humility looks like to me.

Taco Mike (00:27:45):
When I don’t like rushing a situation, my guns out, you know, who do I gotta shoot? Like, who’s the here. Who’s the bad guy, right? Maybe there’s no bad guys. Maybe I’m the bad guy for misinterpreting the 911 call. Maybe it wasn’t a 911 call. Maybe it was a 311 call. And they just had a simple question, but I elevated it and escalated it. Like I love doing that because I want to be the hero I want to run in and like fix things and save things like all of those stink when I’m like that, I smell like an. And that’s my default state. That’s just who I am. That’s who I want to be. But I can’t be that. I can’t be that guy. It’s so toxic.

Brad Singletary (00:28:28):
It’s so funny because I mean, I’ve known him probably 15 or 16 years and I’ve seen, I guess your confident, cocky side to some degree, but I think you’re one of the most humble guys I know. And I think it’s because of service. You mentioned that earlier, Dean, that that’s a way to produce humility in yourself. When you’re giving, when you’re making a sacrifice, there was a time maybe 12 years ago, I was going through a divorce. Things were very tough. Financially. My annual license renewal was due. I didn’t have the money. I didn’t have the money and I could not continue to practice do my job. If I didn’t pay my license, it was $120 or something like that. And I was a hundred dollars short. It was $120, a hundred dollars short. I literally asked Mike for a hundred bucks and he gave it to me and just basically said, don’t worry about it, man, go, go, go for it. And I know that Mike has done a ton of that stuff. So that’s how I see you as a humble person, because you’re, you don’t carry yourself that way. You may be struggling with it on the inside, but outwardly you’re giving and serving and making sacrifices all the time. And the other thoughts about how to foster humility.

Dean Sanner (00:29:36):
Well, I think you have to be able to not see yourself as more important than you are our society categorizes people. And so it says, oh, if you’re an actor, a famous actor, you’re up here. If you’re an athlete, you’re up here. If you’re a politician, wow. I probably shouldn’t have put politicians in there, but they think they’re way up there. And I think I went to this luncheon with Derek Carr a while back quarterback of the Raiders. And I was impressed that he came in there early. He was in shorts and a t-shirt. He was just going around shaking people’s hands. Like we were all in the same level. That to me is a sign of humility. I had never met him before. I didn’t know him from Adam, but it was this idea of, Hey, I’m not more important than you. I’m a person. And I think when, when we put ourself on the same level, that’s just a sign of humility. Nobody’s more important than anybody else. We all put our pants on the same way in the morning.

Brad Singletary (00:30:34):
Let’s talk about forgiveness. We talked in the last episode about how holding onto resentment is really just poison to our spiritual growth and so forth. What is the value of forgiveness? Why do we need to do that? And how do you do it?

Dean Sanner (00:30:50):
Well, there’s actually been a lot of studies on forgiveness. A guy named Everett Worthington at the university of Virginia has done a lot of writing about that and the benefits, the, the physical benefits of forgiveness apart from any religious side of things. Basically what happens is when, when events happen in our life that we feel hurt or wronged by if we don’t release or forgive, we end up basically holding these stones in our backpack and it ends up weighing us down. And in his research basically talks about, you know, the, the effects of that kind of stress, which come out in high blood pressure, heart problems, et cetera, that if you don’t release other people from their wrongs. And in fact, forgiveness is not for the other people who committed a wrong forgiveness is for yourself. You benefit from forgiveness. And I’ve always taught that forgiveness itself is not a human concept.

Dean Sanner (00:31:57):
It’s actually divine humans. We usually talk about apologizing all. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Forgiveness means I’ve got to do something. I’ve got to. If I forgive you, if I choose to forgive you, basically, I’m letting you off the hook for what I think I owe you because most of us look at justice. I got to get even. So if you wronged me, what do I have to do? I got a wrong you back. And that levels the playing field. When in fact the exact opposite is true. If I release you from that, what it does is it releases me. So now I’m not hanging onto that or that grudge. And you talked about that’s what creates problems. And so forgiveness is a healing tool that everybody needs to practice to be able to release thing. Heck if we could forgive, we wouldn’t have any road rage guy that cut me off. I could just say, oh, I hope you’re certainly hope you don’t wreck it. Anybody else tonight? Yeah. As opposed to somehow I’ve got to get even, but we’ve got to release that. Getting even peace, I believe in justice, but there’s never going to be justice here fully. Everybody gets wronged. So what do you do with it? And how do you move on

Brad Singletary (00:33:17):
One of the most powerful things about the 12 step programs is, is it asks you to consider, you know, how you’ve wronged other people that has sure helped me forgive a lot. When I, when I start to write down all of my bullets, you know, when I start to thinking about all the people that have harmed, you got to name them, you got to write it down. You got to make amends. You gotta admit to those things. I suddenly am realizing, you know, that’s something with humility is taking a look at myself that helps me forgive people is realize I’ve done that. I’ve done all those things. We exist. Our shadow is full of the character flaws that we’re mad at everybody else about. We are that too. We’ve probably done some of the same things to some level at some point in our life. And I read a cool thing. One time about forgiveness. And it talked about forgiveness is to consider the dignity of the offender. That there are more than just the wrong that they’ve done to me. There, there are more, they’re more valuable than just the mistake that they made or, or the thing that they’ve done to harm me. That’s something that helps me too, is really see people as more than just their negative treatment of me. How do we do forgiveness, Mike?

Taco Mike (00:34:33):
Everybody’s forgiven. You’re all forgiven. That’s the beautiful thing about, so who I am, who I want to be as a person is I forgive her because I just like what you had said, just what Dean had said about this backpack of all these resentments. Just like somebody who eats three meals of donuts a day, you would be able to see in their body the results of that. I personally believe that resentment creates a physical evidence. I know people who are riddled with resentments and anger and they are a, they are dim. They are physically diminished. They are less than they could be, should be as a man because their body is carrying the weight, the inherent internal effects of their resentments in their angers. It shows , it’s projected. It’s like a pheromone. It’s like they give off a pheromone. And when, when I’m with someone, you can, are you tracking with me?

Taco Mike (00:35:32):
Have you ever been okay? You could just sit with someone and they’re just sort of, they’re just get off gassing. Dis-Ease they’re not, they have no chill. They got no chill. And then you can think of people that you’re, you know, in your circles, who are just the most zenned out people, you know, and they’re happy. And you like being with them and they like themselves and you like them. And you like yourself when you’re with them, because that might be the kind of person whose their mindset and their, their agendas – you’re all forgiven. It’s not, I’m a sworn to say this and this would be wrong. Not that it’s good. Go ahead. I’ll lay down on the floor here and you can all just on me and walk over me. That’s not what I’m saying, but what I am saying is is when something goes off the rails, because it will you’re, it’s all good.

Taco Mike (00:36:24):
I get it. You make mistakes. I make mistakes. We all make mistakes. I’m not going to hold against you because I don’t want to be held, have something. I don’t want to create an imbalance in our relationship. I don’t want to hold anything on you. And I certainly hope you don’t hold anything on me because now we get into power dynamics and this serves ego. One of the reasons I believe that I like to hold resentments and not forgive is because I like to be one-upped. And if I think you’ve screwed me, then I will fuel forever. Owe me one. And I’ll be better than you. So resent. When I hold my resentments. It’s my way of being of one-upping you and having power over you and holding something over your head. You don’t know it, but I know it and I’m doing it. So that’s toxic and poisonous to me.

Taco Mike (00:37:10):
And I’ve already lived that life. I lived that life and it nearly killed me. So I can’t do that. So I’m in recovery from my addiction to unforgiveness. It is for, it was for me, a full throttle addiction. I was addicted to resentment. I loved it. I loved sticking it into my vein,

Brad Singletary (00:37:32):
Just collecting injustice everywhere you go.

Taco Mike (00:37:33):
I freaking loved it. I loved to hate on you in my own mind, because you did a thing and whatever dude, it was heroin. And I got dopamine out of it because it inflated my ego cause now, and I would keep score. Like all these people, all these b*itches owe me, they all own me. They don’t know it, but I do. And I would hold power over people. And, and it’s, that is toxic. I want nothing to do with that. I’m over that. I’m done that.

Brad Singletary (00:38:05):
I’m glad I met you after all that was over, you started working through that when we met.

Dean Sanner (00:38:12):
Oh yeah. Hanging on to hanging on to resentments can feel like it’s power and holding onto something, holding onto that bat and saying, Hey, I’m, I’m, I’m putting this in my back pocket. Cause I’m gonna need it at some point in time. Worst thing you can do for yourself, because now you’re, you’re hanging onto this thing and it’s weighing you down and letting go of that big monster, heavy bat. There’s something powerful in the release. There’s something powerful in forgiving because it releases you from that burden that you were holding onto

Brad Singletary (00:38:48):
One of our best episodes ever are. I remember it was episode 13. I remember it because I screwed up the audio. I didn’t turn on the microphones and it was just recording on my laptop and all the, it was too quiet. You couldn’t even hear it. We never were able to publish it, but it was about relationships and Mike, as he does, most of the time had the golden statement of the, of the whole thing. But he said, and we were titling this forgiving their next offense. Now it’s like paying forward forgiveness. You know what? That person in your life, they’re going to piss you off probably soon. Go ahead and forgive them, go and forgive them now. They’re a human being and they’re going to create pain in your worlds in some way or another. What if you could forgive them before they did that? Now that’s why I say, Mike is Jesus. You know Mike, because you really done this work man, to just see people in a very, like, you carry a lot of grace. You, you are that you are an example of mercy to me. Anyway, that was powerful to me. Forgive their next offense. Now there’s some people in my life who are constantly pissing me off. And I just remember that statement. Of course they are. They’re going to do it again. I’m going to, I’m going to forgive him now ahead of time.

Dean Sanner (00:40:07):
Yeah. And that’s powerful. And I think with any relationship, any healthy relationship, forgiveness is a key because the closer you get to people, the more hurt you’re going to get. And anybody that’s been married knows that when you’re close to somebody you’re vulnerable. So you’re most able to be hurt by that person. And if you don’t think you’re going to be hurt by the ones that are closest to you, then you don’t understand relationships because that’s who hurts you the most because you expect more out of them. And so being able to having that mindset and I’m going to forgive them, I’m going to forgive them because it’s going to happen. And getting yourself in that mindset really helps you to have a healthy marriage, healthy relationship with your kids. Your kids are going to hurt you. You’re going to hurt them.

Brad Singletary (00:40:54):
Of course your teenage son is going to say something rude or not do it. You tell them that’s totally normal. Why can’t I just forgive it ahead of time and not be angry in the moment because he’s just being a teenage boy.

Dean Sanner (00:41:08):
Not easy, but it’s a good thing to do

Taco Mike (00:41:11):
Again, this is a learn this, I learned this from Jesus. So I like to, you know, the other show, the last show we talked about religion, and maybe we talked about deity and divinity. I look at Jesus as a hero guide in the same way that somebody might look at Luke Skywalker, right? I almost said that too. Yeah. Luke’s hour or a business leader or a sports leader. I mean, there’s tons and tons of great leaders who are alive right now who are very worthy of sort of admiration and emulation. And, and I think that’s fantastic. I look at Jesus as a, as a business philosopher, as a, as a psychologist, he was the, he’s the history’s greatest relationship builder. He’s to me, he is so many he embodies so many attributes and characteristics of manhood, of Manliness, of being alpha. And so I take into steal from him, just so many life lessons that I build on, regardless of why you discount everything that is said about him in spiritual and religious terms.

Brad Singletary (00:42:28):
Even if you don’t think he’s the son of God.

Taco Mike (00:42:31):
Forget all that. Forget all. Yes. A hundred percent forget all that. If you’re hung up on the fact that you don’t believe the claims that are made about Jesus. Cool. Awesome.

Brad Singletary (00:42:41):
Read about them anyway. Read it. Yes.

Taco Mike (00:42:43):
Learn about this. Bad-Ass anyway, because it will benefit you to know him and to know the kind of alpha that Jesus was in the kind of bad-ass stuff that he did for his community himself, the people, the people that he met, the broken hearted people that he met and encouraged and lifted up, and his message is valuable to every man. And ignore if you, if you don’t jive with all the religious stuff about it, ignore it, ignore it. Just forget it, discount it. Don’t even spend one second on that stuff, but drill into who that dude was and it will change you.

Dean Sanner (00:43:23):
Yeah. I think that’s a good point. Cause I think a lot of people can only see Jesus in those religious terms. And I think that’s probably why you identify with him because he violated the culture and the norms of the religious world. So often he went against the grain and that kind of strikes me as where you come from. Totally.

Taco Mike (00:43:46):
He was a bad-ass don’t think for a minute that Jesus did not blow minds.

Dean Sanner (00:43:51):
Oh, totally. And a lot of other things too in the process, but yeah, he went against the grain.

Brad Singletary (00:43:57):
We talked in the last episode, some about sublime moments, you know, to seek out sublime experiences. I’m curious about what some of those are for you, just as an example. So this really is just all inspiring things that you might encounter, the things you’ve seen or done that you just kind of go, whoa, this is, this is significant. Like I’m part of this beautiful creation and there’s, there’s just amazing things around me. For me. It was a few years ago. I did a hike with my boys and their little scout troop through Zion national park. And we hiked all the way down into this thing. I don’t, I don’t remember the elevation change, but it took us all day. And we ended up at observation 0.1 of the most popular kind of picture spots. But walking up along the steep cliff in the walkway is about two and a half feet wide at one point.

Brad Singletary (00:44:45):
And I swear, it’s like a mile straight down and then straight up, it’s another mile of just solid rock above you. You know, there’s just clouds and trees. And it was just this amazing thing, this view of this huge valley at the top that was a very sublime experience for me. And I don’t do that enough. I think I need to go looking for it. I’m curious. What kinds of moments in time, just something that you saw or did your favorite place to go that makes you kind of go like, wow, this is a special moment for me right now. Something in nature. Maybe it has to do with connection with a loved one. I mean, yeah.

Dean Sanner (00:45:23):
Well, for me it’s, it’s about fishing. Okay. One of the things I do, I blow out of town and I go up up in the Utah to Panguitch lake that’s my go-to place. And one of the reasons I love it is there’s no cell reception up there. Nobody can get ahold of me. And besides the fact that it seems like the fish are always biting and it’s weird cause the lake itself, isn’t beautiful and it’s almost kind of Sage brushy and a little bit a little

Taco Mike (00:45:55):
Bit scrappy.

Dean Sanner (00:45:56):
Yeah, yeah. Deserty almost. But I love the fact that there’s wildlife up there almost always see deer or something out there, but just the fact that you can be on the lake and you’re just there and every now and then we’ll start looking around like, man, isn’t this beautiful, isn’t this gorgeous. And then wife and I went up to Alaska this summer. And again, it’s the beauty of this time, what we did. We, we, we splurged out, we went on an airplane flight and landed on the glacier on Mount Denali. And that was just incredible seeing the huge enormity of that place. We’re flying around it. And I’m like, man, this is the same mountain and we’re going to land down here. And it was just, just the, the awesome. And I don’t even have the right words for it, but it was just, it was just incredible. And just being there, being with her, seeing nature, coursing, the, the moose, the bear, the everything that’s out there, it was just, it was just wonderful.

Brad Singletary (00:47:05):
Awesome stuff. How about you, Mike?

Taco Mike (00:47:06):
That’s really cool. Like Panguitch, which I wasn’t, it wasn’t that long ago I was there. And it’s exactly what you described. It’s a little bit scrappy, but it’s this little, it’s a little gem. It’s very it seems out of place. So I’ve got lots of stories of lots of these really cool, very similar experiences. Of course, like I live a life that I’m continually, constantly chasing those kinds of experiences, I live a very high adrenaline kind of lifestyle. And so I’m, I’m always, it’s like, I’m like, I need to continually get another fix of that. Like I need to get another adrenaline hit. I need to see another mountain top. I need, I’m always chasing that stuff. What I’ve found to be super valuable to answer this question when I’ve found to be really valuable is to try to have, I love to do it daily when possible.

Taco Mike (00:47:56):
It doesn’t always have. And I forget, I just sometimes straight up forget, but I like to have a daily moment where I have a flare. I can focus down and drill down my thinking, my, my super, my monkey mind. I can just slow things down into slow motion and then take, and sometimes it’s 20 seconds at a stoplight. Sometimes it’s longer. Sometimes it’s it’s in whatever situation it’s in, but to take these long sustain held breaths. And then during the held, during the moment of the held breath, to just lay my mind out like glass and to just experience, and I don’t know what words to use, but to experience just a peacefulness and a calmness with being alive and then feeling also one other physical sensation. So it’s a couple of things. Okay. So let me break it down again really quick. It’s grab a moment out of chaos because these moments don’t, like I don’t look at my daily counter.

Taco Mike (00:49:04):
It’s like, oh yeah, have a moment here right after lunch. But right before this meeting, like, no, they have to be seized. I have to grab them. And so I have to put my, I have to, the clicking on my brain has to be such that when in the moment appears, maybe it’s just sitting in a chair waiting for somebody they’re a little bit late. Bingo. There it is right there. Or I’m sitting at a stoplight bingo. There it is. Or whatever, but the moment has to be, it has to be grabbed. Okay. So have to look for the moment, have to be willing to take it. Then I have to hold my breath and I don’t know why that works for me, but it does. I’ve read a lot of meditation books and I’ve tried to do a lot of meditations.

Taco Mike (00:49:46):
I’ve tried to sit in my, I’ve tried to do the little feet thing. You know, where you sit with cross leg. I’ve tried to do all that stuff. And for whatever reason, and I don’t know why because I’m broken, super broken, super weird. None of that works for me. I’ve tried it all. I’ve tried to lay down and do the thing I go to sleep, or I can’t do it for more than 10 seconds, but here’s what works for me. Hold my breath. Maybe that’s interesting. I don’t know why, but that’s the only thing I found that works. So it’s when I am holding my breath and I’ve gotten to the point now, because I do this all the time. I can do 30 seconds. I can hold my breath for like 30 seconds. And so for 30 seconds, maybe I’ll do a two or three breath count, but while I’m holding my breath, I am feeling grateful. I’m feeling happy. I’m feeling peace and calm. And I’m just soaking in all of that kind of vibe. And sometimes it’s moments like I’ll have moments that move me, that move me to deep emotion. Like, I will feel very energetically strongly about my wife or my son or a thing, or an idea that I’ve been sort of like chewing on. And it’ll just those moments can be for me the most valuable part of my day, because I might, it might be the only thing that I remember, like you could, I can, I could repeat back for you. Dozens of moments that I’ve had really cool experiences, but I don’t know what day it was. I don’t know the time of the day. Like, I don’t remember anything about that day. The day is like gone to me, but I remember those captured moments.

Taco Mike (00:51:27):
So that for me as the key to that spirit. So maybe this is how I’ll just stand. I don’t want to say anymore. We’ll, we’ll let you guys finish it out. This I’m going to finish my talking on this show right now, by saying for me, I do love the big moments, like what Dean was talking about, and I’m chasing those. For me, I have broken down my spiritual practice to the moment of all I can hold my breath for. Cause that’s about all I can handle. I can’t do a 20 minute meditation. I can’t do any of that stuff, but I can hold my breath for 15, 20 seconds. And during that time I can really sharpen my mind and really get my spirit that the gears of I can mesh all that together in really tight unity. And then for that brief moment, I can click in plug in and feel the feels as high levels I can. And then the light turned green and I got to go where the guy shows up to the meeting. It’s time to do the thing. And if I can have a moment like that every day that I am, I’m charged back up. That’s my plug-in, you know, your phone is showing like, read the 1% battery and I can just do that and zip right back up right back to full charge. That’s, that’s my deal.

Brad Singletary (00:52:55):
That’s one of the coolest things I’ve ever heard, man. No wonder if I see you show up to something and you’re breathing hard, trying to catch your breath, I’ll assume you’ve been meditating.

Taco Mike (00:53:04):
I just been doing my 30 second meditation.

Brad Singletary (00:53:06):
I love it. I love the brevity of that is that the right word brief, the brief nature of that, and something that would, this is a trendy thing about mindfulness meditation. That’s basically noticing, you know, just observing and seeing, noticing what you see, hear, smell, taste, and touch. Seeing the light, the shadows, hearing the breeze, you know, just feeling whatever you’re feeling, feel your feet right now, inside your shoes. Just take a minute and feel if your socks are comfortable and is this room comfortable? Those kinds of things. I love though that you’re talking about this there’s momentary time where you can connect with something that I do believe is very spiritual. Last topic. I want to talk about real quick guys. And we’ll get you out of here is appreciation. So gratitude and alpha is grateful. How do you create gratitude? Well, how do you foster gratitude?

Brad Singletary (00:53:59):
I kind of see gratitude is it’s really a prerequisite for hope. Someone taught me this probably 25 years ago. That if you’re, if you’re trying to look ahead and believe that it’s all going to be okay, you need to look behind you and realize it’s always been okay. You’ve already been delivered through all kinds of craziness. You’ve already survived hard things. And so gratitude for me, the value of it is to say, if I count my blessings, if I look at all the things that have gone, okay. And that I didn’t think I would make it through, that tells me I’m going to be all right. When the next one comes, how do we do gratitude?

Dean Sanner (00:54:41):
Oh, I had to work on gratitude. That’s been something I really have to work out. I and I had, I had a good relationship with my dad, but my dad was, was just very negative. He would always see the negative things. And that’s what came out in our family. Now, outside, if you weren’t in my family and you knew my dad you’d think he was the best guy ever. And so for me, I really had to start looking for it. What are these things I can be grateful for? And not just things that are happening to me, but things in general. And then I had to not just be aware of it. I had to share it. I had to let somebody else know, say it. Yeah. And one of the experiences for me that really kind of turned things around.

Dean Sanner (00:55:36):
I had no idea how negative I was becoming. I was becoming just like my dad. And so one day I came home from work and we had two little girls at the time they were, they were young and you know, little kids, they make messes. And my wife happened to be at home with them. And the one time in her life, she was pretty much staying at home with the kids. And I came home and stuff’s all over the place. There’s no dinner being made. And I came in and I forget what I said, but it was something negative. And my wife said this to me. She said, you know, sometimes we just wish you wouldn’t come home. I was like, oh my gosh. I think I just heard from God right now. And I better start looking at myself.

Dean Sanner (00:56:26):
I thought my word, if that’s how I’m coming across, I need to do something, I need to be grateful. My kids can play and make a mess. I need to be grateful. I have a wife to come home to. I had to start looking for gratefulness and part, one of the things I had to do, I had a rydall the yellow sticky on my, on my steering wheel. And I put it down and I said, say something positive. When you walk in the door first, I had to start finding it. And once I started finding it, guess what? It was easier to find started a snowball if you will. But I had to, I had to work it. I really had to work it.

Brad Singletary (00:57:06):
That’s great awareness on your part to know that, you know that was a problem. And you accepted that feedback. I always call it, you know, your wife, coach, if you just listened to her, she’ll teach you some things. And it seems like you, you do have some humility there, man. You know, you’re like, whoa, I need to reel this back in a little bit. How about for you Mike gratitude? How do you do it? How do you foster that in yourself?

Taco Mike (00:57:29):
I said it, wasn’t going to say anything more. Sorry. let’s see. I’m going to ask you, I’m going to steal the host chair. Brad, what are you doing to dig in and then have gratitude? Cause you’re let me like make a quick observation. You’re a busy guy. You got a busy family. You have the biggest blended family of anybody I know if you don’t know this already, Brad is, Brad’s very married guy and his wife came in with kids and he came in with kids and you have 18 kids, 6, six boys. Okay. Six boys. Homeboy has got six boys. Then he’s running. This practice is doing the Alpha Quorum Show and he’s running that Facebook group. Brad’s got a lot going on. So there is a lot of, you would be justified. And I w I like that you brought up the dad coming home thing, because I was thinking earlier too, about like, how do you not come home with six boys after they spray painted the walls and like knife slash the couch.

Taco Mike (00:58:24):
And the dog is like hung up by a belt from the ceiling fan. Like, I can only imagine what it’s like coming home with six boys. And then I’ve, don’t you guys know that I worked all day to do the thing and then say, and this is how you thank me. When I come home work, everything is trashed. Did you, okay? How is it that we all I’m looking at it, all of us? How is it that we all find the power to be grateful to our wives, bless their hearts, man, and our kids for as jacked up as they are like, this really is a thing that we have to practice. What’s your gratitude practice like?

Brad Singletary (00:59:04):
I think I do that. I think I just look for things that I like. I look for things that I enjoy or appreciate. I saw something one time and said, if all you did was go around and look for things to appreciate, you would like live a life of bliss or something like that. And, and I, and I, some of that may, in my nature, I think I’m just a little bit like that. I said I started college as an art major, so I’m always looking at how things look. And I think that taught me like, that looks cool. That thing looks like how that’s, how that’s set up. And so I’m always just looking for what looks cool to me. You know, my wife has a nice perfume on, I want to say it to her. I’m just, I’m just looking for things to acknowledge as decent and beautiful and cool. And I there’s plenty of times that I don’t, I get on the pity pot and get feeling sorry for myself, just like everyone else. But I just do that. I think that’s my habit. And maybe I had to learn it. I don’t know. I’m just always looking for things that are awesome.

Taco Mike (01:00:03):
In your practice. Do you see that there’s guys who cannot acknowledge the gifts, the blessings, the things that they have in their life, all around them? Like what you just said. I think Dean had said this, like, be grateful that your kids have, did you have kids and that they can make a mess, that they are energetic and creative and all of that. And they’re rambunctious, right? Find ways to be grateful that you are married, that you have a house to come home to the edge of a job, to support a house, to come home to, that you had a car that got you to and from, you didn’t die on the way, all of those things. So, Brad, the question is in your practice, are you seeing guys who are so hard that have no gratitude and are just, their jaw is set because their life sucks and their wife sucks and everything sucks?

Brad Singletary (01:00:57):
Yeah. Super common.

Taco Mike (01:00:59):
And they don’t appreciate any of it. And yet, from an outside perspective, you could look and say, you dumb, are you freaking kidding me?

Brad Singletary (01:01:06):
Yeah. I think it comes from like, what is it? The big five personality traits or whatever. So disagreeableness, you know, so most men are thinking types are more critical minded they’re analyzers, and they, they see the problems because we’re fixers. And so they’re just kind of, it’s maybe DNA type of stuff that makes us notice what’s wrong. You know, survival talking about anthropology and stuff. Survival depended on the guy who could see the clouds coming and the guy who could see the bear tracks and the guy who could notice what doesn’t look right. And that’s the guy who prepared and was the warrior and kind of set himself up to, to kind of win and survive. And so some of it maybe is in our DNA, we had to be detached from our emotions in order to fight the war and kill the animals and do all those things.

Brad Singletary (01:01:52):
And so we just maybe kind of evolved that way a little bit, but for sure, I noticed that with like trauma, if pessimism is one of the symptoms of like PTSD, so a person who’s been through a lot of trauma, they’re just super pessimistic. And I know that it’s probably not their nature. That’s probably an injured nature. It’s some to some degree and we can work on that. But for me, yeah, it’s just looking around, look, in really it’s kind of visual maybe for me. So I’m thinking, what would I take a picture of if I wanted to paint something in this room? What, what angle, what I want to look at? What thing do I want to experience at a deeper level?

Taco Mike (01:02:36):
You ever deal with anybody who’s suicidal, pre suicidal, and this, this inset hard set in gratitude being a factor in any of that?

Brad Singletary (01:02:47):
Oh, yeah, for sure. That’s almost always where a person’s at, when they’re, you know, in the depths of despair is not seeing any goodness. Not seeing any blessing, not they just, they just don’t even see it. And if you try to point something out, they’re sometimes saying, oh yeah. But then they discount the whole thing with some negative side of it. You know, you work, you’ve done mental health, plenty of that stuff, too. Dean, what do you think on that?

Dean Sanner (01:03:14):
Basically? it’s almost like they have blinders on and they can’t see the positive. They can’t see the things that are that they can be grateful for. And that’s part of the chore is being able to get them outside of themself as a famous psychiatrist, that one of the things that he did in order to get people out of deep depressions, was to have them serve somebody else to go be of service, do something outside themselves. And when they started doing that, then it was like, oh, wow, I should be grateful for this other people have it worse than me. And you can always find people that have it, worse people that have a better, but the idea was I’m doing for something for someone else that makes a difference. Wow. Helps you be able to see things from a different perspective, Carl manager. Okay. Yeah.

Brad Singletary (01:04:06):
Another thing about sacrifice right there. So a lot of back to a church thing, sorry, a lot of churches talk about, you know, tides and so forth. And that’s a struggle for a lot of people. And I’ve been through, I’ve been up and down with that myself, but something I’ve learned recently again this year is that I’m much more grateful when I’m, you know, partying myself with 10% of my income. I’m much more grateful and, and appreciating what I do have when I’ve given a bunch of it away. So service sacrifice. That’s another thing that helps with gratitude with gratitude. Now, now you said, you’re not going to talk, but I’m not going to do that. Mike bring us home gratitude.

Taco Mike (01:04:46):
I had a conversation, not that long ago with a guy who was pretty suicidal, there is desperation. Anytime somebody is that desperate, that is sort of making those statements about their inability to want to continue to live their life. I think there is a strong through line of in gratitude or the inability to see things that are right in front of them that are so wonderful that are already right there that already exist. And in this conversation with this guy, it was just so negative and just all, that’s all we spent a good bit of the time talking about until it just seemed to me like, all right, enough enough, I don’t want to hear any more. Like it just got, maybe it was just got bored of listening to this guy run on and on and on about how his life was. Okay, great, fine.

Taco Mike (01:05:35):
I get it. Is there, is there a possibility that there’s anything going good in your life? And then homeboy just started like clicking off stuff that was like, great. You know, not to give anything away for him, but like, there were plenty of things that were really rad that were going on in his life. This guy has a great house. He’s got his own business and this guy has wife, who’s super supportive. I think he’s in his second marriage. And this, this girl sounds like an angel. And there’s just so many things that are just really, really great with all of us, with all of us, with all of us. And that is maybe the takeaway for me when we have a conversation like this is yes, there are plenty of things that have gone wrong. There’s a lot of spilled milk on a lot of our counters.

Taco Mike (01:06:30):
We don’t need to burn the house down just cause we spilled some milk or the bed or whatever. There was always hope. I think Dean, you talked about, or somebody talked about hope and the definition of hope and where it comes from. And so if we’re going to talk about these spiritual being spiritually centered, I think that what is really fundamental about that is so many of these things we talk about are not natural and are not the default setting. Maybe for some of us, the default state is to be pessimistic. And maybe what Brad said is really, can resonate with you because maybe in our caveman society and our hunter gatherer society, you might be the only guy who has kept us alive because your pessimism has really benefited us. And we have avoided being eaten, killed and struck by lightning so many times because your careful pessimism has really been valuable to us.

Taco Mike (01:07:27):
Hold that in perspective though, are you Mr. Pessimistic in a hunter gatherer society? And do you need saving from all of the pitfalls that are out there to murder you and kill you and eat you, probably not. You probably drive in a very safe car with airbags and come home to a house that has a very safe electrical system. There’s probably very little in your life now that is trying to kill you. And that level of pessimism doesn’t, it doesn’t work. It’s not working for your wife or for your kids or for you. And so my thought here would be to say, for those of us, and I’ve been there, not super deep that maybe thankfully, that’s one personality DIYing that I have not fallen into. And that’s this deep, dark depressive ingratitude. That’s an area, that’s a character area that I don’t have to that high level, but some of us do.

Taco Mike (01:08:25):
And for those of us that do, there is an antidote for that. And it’s not a one-time pill that you take once and you’re cured. It’s a daily treatment. And any of the things that Dean or Brad has said here, I think are those vitamins that can slowly start to turn that and shape that and change that. And I think maybe the summary here for me would be that to find what it is in your life that is awesome. Be happy about it, be grateful for it and then hold it in your brain, hold it in your mind at the expense of even ignoring and letting go as much as you don’t want to, but ignoring and letting go some of the other stuff so that it doesn’t kill hope and doesn’t kill and strangle optimism. That, to me, sounds like a little recipe or a little prescription for the kind of life that is worth living. Whereas the other one is so maybe dark and gray and colorless that it just didn’t feel like worth living. So I’m just offering a perspective that there’s a way out of that. And it’s a journey and you can get a hold of Brad. You can hold a Dean or you can get ahold of me and we’d be happy. Talk to you and help you any way we can. I hope the sun shines on everybody out there.

Brad Singletary (01:09:50):
Speaking of gratitude, just want to thank you guys for being here tonight. Dean and Mike, I know you’re both very busy. You got families, you’ve got responsibilities and here we are 10 o’clock on a Sunday night. I’ve really benefited a great deal from this because I have a goal to spend an hour a week with an alpha, with a mentor, with someone or with a group, someone who can set me straight. And although that wasn’t the intended purpose, that’s exactly what’s happened here. I’ve learned so much from both of you Dean. If guys want to get ahold of you, how can they find you? Your website is what was it again? http://www.discoverynlv.com. Okay. And we appreciate you being here. You guys were talking about spirituality, rewind this, read the transcript, listen to, look at the show notes and see what you can do here that we’ve shared that might benefit you to level up and grow up as a man until next time. No excuses, alpha.